《【外国人眼中的中国】马丁·雅克：中国共产党领导中国完成了 一场卓越的转型》参评推荐表

　　《【外国人眼中的中国】马丁·雅克：中国共产党领导中国完成了一场卓越的转型》作品二维码

　　《【外国人眼中的中国】马丁·雅克：中国共产党领导中国完成了一场卓越的转型》中文译稿

　　在中国共产党的领导下，中国实现了跨越式的发展，人民的生活水平得到显著提高。在建党99周年之际，国际在线专访了英国著名学者、剑桥大学高级研究员马丁·雅克。对于中国共产党领导下中国的发展有何评价？如何看待中国在抗击新冠疫情中的表现？对于中国未来发展可能面临的挑战与破解之道有怎样的预期？马丁·雅克教授在视频采访中对这些问题一一做出了回答。

　　记者：雅克教授，非常感谢您接受这次采访。我们今天讨论的主题是在中国共产党领导下的中国的发展，今年7月1日是中国共产党成立99周年纪念日。我想知道您如何评价在中国共产党领导下中国过去几十年的发展？

　　马丁： 很显然，在很长一段时间内，中国共产党领导中国完成了一场卓越的转型。当然，自1949年以来，有好的时期，也有不好的时期。但可以肯定的是，自1978年邓小平领导的改革开放以来，中国开始了，在我看来，可以说是人类历史上最引人注目的经济转型。这样的转型过程在过去几十年持续进行。在某些方面，中国现在确实是一个非常现代化的国家。与此同时，我所说的现代化不仅仅是在经济层面，尽管这可能是一个首要问题。但是你可以看到，在大学教育、社会结构、社会稳定、减少贫困，尤其是在减少贫困方面，中国都做得非常好。

　　记者：中国哪些方面的变化是让您印象最深的？

　　马丁：我认为自1978年以来，中国所做的最令人印象深刻的两件事就是经济增长和减少贫困。先来看看减少贫困方面，中国成功帮助8.5亿人脱贫，按照现行的国际标准，中国即将完全消除贫困，这一点做得非常好。在这期间，世界很大一部分贫困人口的消除得益于中国方面作出的贡献。这点是非常不错的，而这一成就应归功于中国政府的领导。

　　记者：我也想跟您谈谈这场新冠疫情，令人难过的是它正席卷全球。但是中国在抗击疫情方面已经取得了初步胜利。正如您之前提到的，中国的制度优势实际上发挥了非常重要的作用。您认为中国的方案或经验对其他国家，尤其是发展中国家是否有借鉴意义？

　　马丁：从1月中下旬开始，在弄清楚了新冠肺炎带来的威胁后，中国在应对新冠肺炎疫情上的表现是非凡的。中国当时的战疫中心是湖北武汉。中国采取了严格的防疫举措去控制疫情。如果你现在放眼全球，去看当时的中国——这个第一个面临这些挑战的国家——在面对极度困难问题时的表现，就知道中国的确做得非常好。这也是中国的表现令人印象深刻的原因。而西方从中学到了什么?我认为结论是非常令人失望的。每个国家的反应都不一样。举个例子，欧洲首先受到疫情冲击的国家是意大利。意大利人很清楚他们需要向中国学习。但另一方面，比如英国，我的国家，它就不属于这一类，我们的科学家很好，但是政客和媒体对中国不太友好，以至于他们尽量不谈论、不提及，也不去学习中国的抗疫举措。在抗疫方面中国做得很好，一些东亚国家总体上都做得不错。

　　记者：这个世界变化太快了，新的问题和新的挑战层出不穷。您认为中国未来最迫切需要应对的挑战是什么?中国如何更好地应对这些挑战?

　　马丁：中国作为世界大国之崛起，仍处于起步阶段。从历史的角度来看，这是新近发生的。那么中国应该关注什么呢?我认为首先应该是自身的发展，这一点非常重要，就是它的经济增长。经济增长的同时，尽管中国人的生活水平得到了显著的提高，但仍然有一些人过得不是很好。我认为这里还存在另一个问题，这也是一个日益突出的问题，就是说尽管在消除贫困方面成绩显著，但中国仍然是一个（发展）不平衡的国家。所以我期待中国未来更加关注（发展）不平衡问题。此外，我认为未来如何处理日益严峻的国际关系仍然应该是中国非常关注的议题，我也将持续关注中国在处理国际关系中优先考虑的问题是什么。还有一些其他的议题，比如中国与欧洲的关系，我认为中国需要在这方面给予更多的关注。中国现在应该提出一些新的构想，来应对新的国际环境，因为之前的一些构想和倡议，是在中美关系变得复杂之前提出的，现在中国在世界上多个领域的地位提升了，关键点就在于中国需要什么样的新思路，来应对新的变局。

　　Interview With Professor Martin Jacques

　　Journalist:

　　First of all, professor Jacques. Thank you so much for taking this interview. I missed a chance interviewing you at the world internet conference. But finally here you are. Thank you so much. Can you talk about how would you evaluate China's development and the leadership of CPC in the past decades?

　　Professor Jacques:

　　I think that clearly taking it over a longer period than that, the CPC has been responsible for leading China in a remarkable transformation. Of course, there have been good periods and bad periods since 1949. But certainly since 1978, and the beginning of the reform period, led by Deng Xiaoping. The country began, I would argue the most remarkable economic transformation in human history. And that process has continued over the last. What should we say? Decade. And China is now really in some respects a very modern country. I mean, well, of course, modernization is not just an economic question, even though that is probably the lead question. But you can see across the board in areas like university education, social structure, social stability, reduction of poverty, most extraordinary reduction of poverty, China has done it extremely well.

　　Journalist:

　　Any particular aspects that impress you the most?

　　Professor Jacques:

　　I think the two most impressive things China's done in that period since 1978, economic growth and the reduction of poverty. I mean let’s talk about the reduction of poverty, reduced poverty by about 850 million to the point where it's on the verge of eliminating poverty as according to the criteria that's used. And this is fantastic. This is that China has been responsible for the majority of the reduction of poverty in the world over this period. This is fantastic. And the Chinese government deserves huge credit for this achievement.

　　Journalist:

　　Now I wanna talk about the pandemic which is sweeping across the world, but China has achieved initial success in the fight of Covid-19. And as you mentioned earlier that China's institutional advantage actually plays a very important role. Do you think China's proposals or experience have any significance for other countries, especially for the developing countries?

　　Professor Jacques:

　　Once China got that, once China was clear what the threat was from Covid-19, which was mid late January, then the Chinese performance in relationship to it was remarkable. And the key was Wuhan and Hubei province and China took drastic measures to try to get hold of it.And I think that if you look globally now.I mean, you know China clearly have done in the face of very difficult problem. And it was the first country to face these challenges. China did extremely well.How much the west has learned from it? I think this is very disappointing. It varies from one country to another.For example, the first country that was hits in Europe was Italy. The Italians were quite clear that they needed to learn from China. But there is Britain, my own country. It doesn't really fall into that category, because, the scientists were good,but the politicians and the media by this point, were become so kind of China-phobic.They tried not to talk about or mention it or refer to it or learn from it. China did very well, the east Asian countries, particularly the cynic countries, by and large, all have all done very well.

　　Journalist:

　　And the world is changing so fast and the whole international environment is not very easy for China nowadays. What challenges do you think is the most urgent for China to deal with in the future and how can China better respond to it?

　　Professor Jacques:

　　The emergence of China as a major power in the world is still a new story in historical terms. It's extremely recent. So what should China concentrate on, I think the first thing is its own development, that is very important, which is its economic growth. So economic growth because though Chinese living standards have improved a great deal, there's still a lot of people who are not doing so well in China. One question here, I think it's a rising question. You know China has done fantasticly on poverty, but it's still a very unequal country. So I would like to hear China saying more about inequality. I think China is moving into a very difficult period. It has to find a way of handling it. And that’s still very much on China's mind and will continue to me. And what its priorities are in international relations. Then there are other questions, which is, for example, China's relationship with Europe. I think China needs to give some more attention to this. I think now, the time is becoming appropriate for China to come up with some new ideas to deal with the new context. Remember, all those previous ideas were in the previous context before America broke with China. And China's position in the world has got stronger in that all sorts of ways. So the question is, what are the new ideas that China needs to develop to deal with this situation.